Group Forums >> debate, converse, talk. >> Political Parties?
Political Parties?
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Posted about 1 year ago I do believe it was George Washington said that "Political parties would be the undoing of our governmental system." or something to that effect. But the inquiry of this thread would simply be would political parties serve to give voice to the voice of many or the few. Would the Republican and Democrats serve those few interests or the voice of the nation. Washington's thought on parties was that if parties did form, personal agendas would govern their interests and the voice of the people and common good of the nation would be lost to those few who in wealth and prestige may influence the laws and social engineering of the society as a whole. Special Interest Groups influence is quite evident. Watch "Thank you for Smoking" about lobbyist that represent the Cigarette Company. Not per say the voice of the people but those who create wants and needs, whether or not the people allow themselves to be influenced, is not the object of discussion. But those wealthy conglomerate corporations that regulate the education, information and entertainment aspects of our society. Would it be better for this country if all the political parties were dissolved and their political assets were liquidated? What do you think we need to do to get this country back on track? Scaramouche... in Twilight's Shadow.... a Dream.... |
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| Posted about 1 year ago Scaramouche said, "What do you think we need to do to get this country back on track?" Nothing short of a miracle, we're looking at another presidential political cycle where one can only feel despair and vote for the least of individually perceived evils. ewww. Sorry, I said I wasn't going to talk about politics, religion, or other sensitive topics. Should've probably stuck to it, I'm so far past disillusioned. What really reeks is that I still couldn't think of a better place to live. Our freedom is our lifesblood and our freedom leads to our degradation and decay as a nation. A continual battle against lowest common denominators to drag us into the sewers .... I'm getting depressed now, bye. Each day is a gift, open it up and play with it! |
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| Posted about 1 year ago im going to sort of stay out of this. |
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| Posted about 1 year ago Step one.... take all the power out of the corporations and how much they are allowed to influence the media, the education of this country, and limit the use of the media for the politicians, and make them have to make personal appearances, rather than brainwashing the country with images poisoned with words and if the only way americans can find out the Candidates is to go see them in person, or read about them both require them to get off their buts and think for themselves, and it's harder to lie in person and make yourself look good in person than it is to create a video of you after the 50th take and repeat the same thing over and over again that comes to be accepted as truth because it has been said over and over again. Education system would be revamped entirely. Beginning at 6th or 7th grade when kids start learning about history of different people and nations, philosophy of religion, incorporated with sociology so that they can understand how the history of a people and nation come to be found in those social and ideals of faith that create the foundations of society. and The arts would be reincorporated into the schools to teach the kids how to dream and just not conform and be made into social mechanical monkeys College education would be free, but first you have to go for liberal art major to learn how to think and not looking for a good job and then for the particulars of area of knowledge that one would wish to explore. Apprenticeship programs training programs for those who may not have a college aptitude where they can learn a skill. The Patriot Act and SOL (Shit out of Luck) program would be purged. All new blood in every office. Too much old blood there with too many ties to too many powerful folk. Sometimes people who just want to make a difference and not quite sure what they want to do, but have an idea of state and politics. Corporate institutions and their lobbyist and the amount of influence political and funding that that they provide would be drastically cut. I think this country needs to wake up, and we have become too comfortable and as long as some one doesn't step over our mental white picket fence house and intrude upon our sense of comforts and privileges then it's alright, as long as it doesn't affect our little world. The voice of the few is heard, even if the many speak and our political parties Democratic and Republician have grown corrupt with nepotism and you scratch my back I'll scratch yours. There are other ideas I have, like with Professional Sports, having the players invest a portion of their pay into the financing of their sports. This accomplishes the following, One the Tax payers don't have to pay for their own stadium. It would create Team loyalty. It make sure that those players who have multi million contracts are held accountable within their own circle. Lots and lots programs for the arts, bringing it into the school systems, and communities where the young and old may contribute, to explore and express ideas so that each can learn from each other. I would undo the Copyright strangle hold that Walt Disney has created with lobbying for extending copyrights for more and more years of control. Copyrights serve to protect the work of an artist, but also gives him a reasonable amount of time to profit from that creativity. After that, his creative concept comes public domain, so other artists may build off it. A creative idea is like a seed that blossoms into a flower. Then hybrids of that flower come to be found across the land. But I break down all political parties since they have their own agenda rather than the concern of the people. They are more interested in getting in, and getting the initial votes and then afterwards, forget why and how they got there in the first place. The Political parties have too many invested interests that they must appease, rather than doing what needs to be done. Some Ideas.... Scaramouche... in Twilight's Shadow... a Dream... |
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| Posted about 1 year ago Oh Janice don't get depressed. As an artist we have one thing that most politicians dread. We dream and desire to make a difference, to waken others with a sense of vision that is born of heart that has one purpose in mind... to simply inspire others with an idea of truth and hope that allows them to dare to dream, to hope, to make them believe that one person can make a difference. Whether we are man-sent angels or devils... well that's depends on your perspective of our idea and your position.. whether one is the object of our art and if it praises or scorns what and who you are. Scaramouche... in Twilight's Shadow... a Dream... |
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| Posted about 1 year ago Excellent ideas, Scaramouche. Much more well-versed than I can hope to be this early in the morning, this late in the week. I agree that the political parties are the undoing of the system, and the root of that problem is made deeper by it being a two-party system, so that each party is so focused on hating the other that little is accomplished. Add just one more (viable) party, and it would distill the whole thing and make everything run more smoothly. In theory. At this point, the system is so corrupt as to be nearly beyond hope. Is the problem that we can't see
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| Posted about 1 year ago The framers definitely did not anticipate the rise of political parties, although their own divisions between Federalists and Democratic Republicans were quite strong, as had been the divisions by ideology and by state in the fight to ratify the Constitution. Think how many ballots it took before Jefferson was elected (or think of the duel between Hamilton and Burr, although there were personal factors as well there). However, I don't think the problem is too much factionalism. The parties differ, and we shouldn't overlook that they do or why they do. It's not all about special interests. Was the invasion of Iraq a good idea? Would an invasion of Iran be a good idea? Is torturing prisoners? Is spying on Americans without a warrant? Do we need universal health care? Were the tax cuts fairly distributed among Americans? Do you want social security eliminated or "privatized"? Do you want clean water regulated? Etc., etc. I'm not asking you because I want you to answer here. I think there's too much politics on Art Bistro already, and I'm already sick of it. I'm asking because I want you to think about where you stand and you represents you, and I don't even insist on what side you should be on. There are huge divisions here. They're not all just corrupt, and Bush is not just a more or less competent version of his opponent in either of the last two elections. In other words, stop whining and start focusing. |
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| Posted about 1 year ago Very well put Jhaber. You're responses are as always level headed. I agree that this country has allot of problems, and I know where I stand and what I believe in, but in my posts, especially if they are political and founded on a personal ideals of morality or right and wrong, I try to be subjective on the matter and raise thoughts on the matter without imposing what I think should and shouldn't be. But for example the Patriot Act is an infringement on our liberties and it goes against the bills of right which is the kernel seed of the whole Constitution. Our Government has grown to big, and we have lost our voice in it because we have allowed our voices to be lost and in our complacent and comfortable little worlds that most Americans live in, don't do anything until we have no choice but to act or suffer injustice handed to us in our own ability to act on our own and other's behalf. Spying on Americans goes against our civil liberties. Yes we need universal healthcare and the Irag police action is nothing more than a personal war for the few and rich privileged who hide behind humanitarian causes and a flag of democracy. And I have my own theories about 911, and our government. And yes there was the Wiggs and their opposing parties in our forefather's time, but the fact remains the insight of George Washington's insight who didn't want to be president in the first place and the wisdom of that statement. Faith is a great thing, any faith that offers in personal hopes and promise, but when that faith comes to be a social institution of religion that dictates the moralities of society and condemns others to be unworthy and corrupt simply because they are different. I believe that is what Washington was getting at, that there will always be political divisions as there are in ideas of faith, philosophy, but we should not allow it become the dividing stone where reason is lost to loyalties and associations with the parties' identities and that the political causes should focus on the welfare of a nation and its people and not those entities of personal interest who through economical, political, social and even religious means would divert the attention from the true purpose of the political welfare of the country. But truly Jhaber, I look forward to your posts. They always make me think and reconsider my thoughts. Thanks Scaramouche... in Twilight's Shadow.... a Dream... |
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| Posted about 1 year ago IMHO, the Patriot Act isn't about government getting to big, but about the party of unprincipled scum in charge at the time of all three branches of government, and we're going to get them out in 2008. |
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| Posted about 1 year ago I'll put it this way, although it means staking out exactly the partisan position I'd been hoping to avoid in AB. The GOP has sold the American people on a scam for most of my life. They spy on people (Watergate, Bush NSA violations of law); they keep huge wars going (Vietnam an extra 5 years under Nixon, expansion into Cambodia, illegal wars in El Salvador and Nicaragua under Reagan, Iraq); bloat the deficit; and as most of these things or Katrina amount to disasters, convince you "big government" is a colossal failure. They also convince you "they all do it," to the point that people don't even notice that in the big Abramoff lobby scandal last year all the contributions were to Republicans. It creates cynicism and alienation. Then they come to you as the party of morning in America and values and small government, as opposed to the party of big government and socialism. (Here small government is redefined as now taxes or regulation on the richest 1% of Americans.) And people buy it. The whole rhetoric has to go. It's not just taking into account that we need health care along with the rhetoric. We just have to ditch the cynical framework and take a stand. |
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| Posted about 1 year ago Jhaber I think you should go for president, but doubt you'll make it cause you make too much sense. So people won't listen. Scaramouche... in Twilight's Shadow... a Dream... |
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| Posted about 1 year ago People view my thoughts and opinions as conservative, but I do not hold to a political party. It is what it is, as janice states....... "vote for the least or individually perceived evils." This unfortunately will be the way I vote. One good thing about doing it this way is, I must listen to the candidates. |
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| Posted about 1 year ago I think it's interesting that with all the bias (for both parties) demonstrated by the various news agencies, that the Iowa Caucus seem to cut through the spin and identified two candidates that seem to be better in touch with the "abandoned majority". I have to admit that Im fearful of Obama's inexperience and I'm not sure that Huckabee has enough foreign policy exerience, given the current global circumstances. Both of these men do seem to have something that resonates with the common man and either may well be the change we need. I like Obama's sense of inclusion verses ostricizing various segments of our society. I like Huckabee's stances on most things, particularly his belief in doing away with the income tax and the IRS (costing taxpayers in excess of $500 million dollars annually). What Bush has given us is not reresentative of a Republican stance. Bush has been operating his own agenda. More Republicans are angry with him than you count. I don't think partisan haranging adds any value to what we need to achieve in the next election. I wish there was a viable third party candidate, but I have yet to see that perdon step forward. If I had to vote today, I would probably go with a Huckabee/McCain ticket, though I think I would prefer Lieberman to anyone else as a VP. He doesn't belong to any political machine. |
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| Posted about 1 year ago Administrative costs to the IRS do not add $500 million. Most people just pay their payroll tax, and administration is simple. Keeping track of sales taxes on a national level, especially if there is a sliding rebate based on low income, would be much more expensive. The bottom line, though, is that virtually every single member of ArtBistro would pay many times as much in sales taxes, while rich people would pay much less. Imagine paying 30% of every purchase you make to the feds, over and above state/local sales taxes. If you're like most starving artists, you spend every penny you earn, so it's like an income tax of 30%. If you are really struggling, and you borrow to spend more than you earn, it's like an income tax of way over 30%, perhaps half your income. (Right now, if you earn $30K, you're paying about 10% in taxes after standard deduction.) Huckabee's proposal is just a fancy, complicated way of transferring your money to the wealthy. |
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| Posted about 1 year ago It seems to me that no matter who you vote for anymore it's the same thing. There is no real party distinction so we need to find an alternative, and I don't mean voting independent. |
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| Posted about 1 year ago It is interesting though, in this election it seems like some people are at least breaking away from party lines. Of course some remain stagnant...haha...but that's life. It'll be interesting (and maybe even scary) to see how the primaries turn out. |


